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Tackling Creationists

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  • Tackling Creationists

    My pet peeve is creationists. I work as a science lecturer in a fundamentalist christian area of the world, so I'm learning a lot about how they think, but I have to admit, it's a steep learning curve. I would like to bounce ideas off people here about how to tackle this issue with them, based on what they think. Since I met my first creationist only about five years ago for the first time, I don't know nearly as much about them as some of you do, so I hope you can help me out. I will come back to this thread and sort out some of my ideas when I have a chance, but I welcome contribution from others on the issue, Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    Mainly, the issue I'm trying to address, is whether I can easily explain macroevolution, which is a creationist term for changing "type", which is another creationist term for what biologists would refer to as speciation followed by a change in morphological phenotype until the new organism does not resemble the original (does not have the same "type"). This means I have to see if there is an actual definition of "type".

    Creationists tend to by and large accept what they like to call "microevolution", which is change in trait frequency within a population due to natural selection. So that is my start point - I will accept that the smart ones actually allow for natural selection within species, but don't understand speciation. To address speciation, I'm going to look at papers from the following groups plus others:

    Singh R, Jagadeeshan S, Grillet M, Everaerts C, Houot B, Richie MG, Cobb M, Ferveur JF, Noor MAF, Grams KL, Bertucci LA, Reiland J, Coyne J

    I have to get updated though, because I'm a few years behind. This is not my area of science.
    Last edited by Lucy Evans; 12-22-2016, 01:13 AM.

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    • zirgs
      zirgs commented
      Editing a comment
      I'd like to know it too. They say the problem with macroevolution is how to acquire new genes. With microevolution they understand distribution changes in a fixed gene pool that can only loose information. And they say random mutations produce only deffects, a beneficial mutation is an extremely rare event.

  • #3
    I suggest familiarizing them with ring species as a starter.

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    • zirgs
      zirgs commented
      Editing a comment
      Well, are there any ring species that don't interbreed even with artificial insemination? The wikipedia says: "The lesser black-backed gulls and herring gulls are sufficiently different that they do not normally hybridize". Yet there is confirmed case that they do: http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1676/13-095.1

  • #4
    I am 55 and I was a christian for 50 of those years. Went to church, had a complete childhood christian education. I stopped being a christian because of the conflict between "Born into sin" meaning nothing is right until God forgives and we are in heaven. Evolution is not about right or wrong but about what's happens next? People who are born into sin can't experience true happiness until heaven. If there was no creation, there is no sin and without needing to forgive sins, God has no value.. A christian doesn't know how to live without sin, its not in their training, not in their culture. They are lost without God. All very sad or stupid for the christians.

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    • #5
      Originally posted by Lucy Evans View Post
      Mainly, the issue I'm trying to address, is whether I can easily explain macroevolution, which is a creationist term for changing "type", which is another creationist term for what biologists would refer to as speciation followed by a change in morphological phenotype until the new organism does not resemble the original (does not have the same "type"). This means I have to see if there is an actual definition of "type".

      Creationists tend to by and large accept what they like to call "microevolution", which is change in trait frequency within a population due to natural selection. So that is my start point - I will accept that the smart ones actually allow for natural selection within species, but don't understand speciation. To address speciation, I'm going to look at papers from the following groups plus others:

      Singh R, Jagadeeshan S, Grillet M, Everaerts C, Houot B, Richie MG, Cobb M, Ferveur JF, Noor MAF, Grams KL, Bertucci LA, Reiland J, Coyne J

      I have to get updated though, because I'm a few years behind. This is not my area of science.
      So where are you meeting these creationists? Because that will make a difference to the answer. Is this degree level, or below that? What sort of age are we looking at?

      What are the policies of your educational establishment? Do they support evolution, and if so, what are the penalties for students who do not pass the courses?

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      • #6
        I guess its wrong we are equal and we should get equal assignmentmasters co uk rights as human beings. For me, black and white don’t matter. But yes on an international level it is really big matter and takes a different way.

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